Saturday, August 1, 2009
Blog #1: How do you interpret Baudrillard's concept of the simulacra? Can you identify other simulacras?
Hi all- it's been a pleasure having all of you in class and talking with you! For your first blog entry, please respond to the question posed above as you also read through your peers' responses. In your responses, please take into consideration class discussions, readings, peer comments, and outside experiences, etc. Please note the authors and theories we have discussed in your responses. Your answer is thorough when you have included these aspects. Have fun!
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I interpret Baudrillard's concept of the simulacra as reality has been replaced overtime with a simulation of reality (symbols and signs) by culture and media. In other words, society has become so reliant on culture and media, that it has lost the original reality of what the simulacra was based on.
ReplyDeleteI think Baudrillard’s example of Disneyland on page 12 of our book is a great example to help me understand his theory. That Disneyland is presented as “a play of illusions and phantasms” in order to make society believe that the rest is real. That Disneyland is a simulacra that hides the real country, the USA.
Other simulacras I can identify with would be social networking sites ie: Facebook, Myspace, Twitter. I seen a commercial from Coleman company where they called themselves “The Original Social Networking Site” The more I think about it, these social networking sites can be called a simulacra of social aspect of society. These sites represent an illusion of what is real in the world, personal “social” communication/interaction.
I hope I'm doing this correctly! I've never blogged before.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read the first 2 pages of Baudrillard's book, I was like oh hell no! I didn't understand a lot of those first two pages. As I continued reading, I found myself intrigued by his point of view. When I came to the part about Disney world on page 12, I got really into it. To think that we go into this place, and almost immediately forget about the outside world. All we really care about is what's going on on the inside.
I guess that I interpret his concept of a simulacra as something that freaks me out. I mean, seriously, this guy thinks really deep. For him to say that could possibly be just copies of ourself, that we have no idea if we are copies of ourselves or the real thing. Who defines us as being originals? As a Christian I believe that we were put on this earth by God, and only He knows the truth. But we're all entitled to our own theories, so for the purpose of this class, I'll go along with the book. However on page 4, Baudrillard stated that the Iconoclasts said that God never existed, that only the simulacrum ever existed...." and so forth. I believe that we had to come from somewhere, and I believe that somewhere is God.
Some other simulacras that I can identify would be perhaps a dating website such as eharmony. And I think of one of my favorite movies growing up, Pinnochio, where a wooden puppet turns into a little boy. Facebook would also be an example of a simulacra.
I think Baudrillards simulacra is perceived as signs or the media which stands in the way of our reality. I agree with Joeyz, because we rely so much on other things such as the media, other people's lives on reality tv, the internet and facebook. We eventually forgot what our existence is actually made of. We don't notice any more that when we're done with the day, we look foward to continuing the avoidance of our actual lives. We may run home to avoid missing certain shows, or to get ready to go to the bar and get drunk with friends. . .
ReplyDeleteBaudrillard mentioning Disneyland is a perfect example of what I'm saying. People love going to Disneyland because they can step away from their natural lives and be someone else. They can feel young again or feel different being in their own imaginary world. This also connects with music. Everyone listens to different types of music because it helps them escape into their own world. Music could also be a simulacra because it is a symbol. People may listen to their music, sing to it or dance to it. When they are singing and dancing, they are in their own world. It takes them away to their non-existence place.
I also agree with Kayla, because I've read like a few pages over and over again because it's confusing!!
I believe that Baudrillard's concept of simulacra simply means that nothing today is real because we as a society look to signs and media to tell us what reality is. We as people cannot distinguish nature from artifice.
ReplyDeleteI didn't understand what simulacra meant until I read the Disneyland example. One goes to Disneyland to take part in all the magical illusions and phantasms and play make believe to escape the "real" world. I agree with Joey, Disneyland is a simulacra for the USA.
I have noticed the concept of simulacra being depicted in several movies and TV shows that I have seen. I would definitely say it is depicted in The Truman Show, The Matrix, Jurassic Park, The Real World and other reality shows to name a few. I want to say that they are all based on hyper-realities. Not sure if I stated that correctly.
Hope I made sense...
I have no idea if I am interpreting this right. This is the most confusing book I have ever read in my life! For me, I interpret the simulacra in two ways. First I view the simulacra as something that is mass produced over time. Everything starts out with an original and eventually copy after copy is made of something. However if you look back the original is now missing and all that is left is a bunch of carbon copies which I think is what Baudrillard is saying that people are just copies. I also see the simulacra as an event when people forget who they are and instead view themselves in terms of the media and signs. I agree with Joeyz and Bridget, often times I believe that people use facebook, and T.V. shows to sort of avoid who we are. For me a good example of a simulacra from Baudrillard’s book was Disneyland as other’s have mentioned. According to Baudrillard, Disneyland is a place where people go to escape and forget who they are as Baudrillard states that “one parks outside and stands in line inside, one is altogether abandoned at that exit” (page 12). While people are in Disneyland they are in a sense leaving themselves and almost entering a fantasy world where people are no longer existing. An example of simulacra that I can come up with would be different types of movies such as The Matrix.
ReplyDeleteIn this text, Baudrillard is trying to point out how we live our life. Of course once you read it, you not agree. When you take the time, you see that we are controlled by images, signs and alternate meanings that you can find in magazines, on television, in movies and on the internet(just to name a few).
ReplyDeleteReality is altered by everything around us today. But each and every one of us should of saw it coming with the evolution of technology.
Just think back to trends, when one person started them, then others would play follow the leader. When you follow one person then you are not being true to yourself or what your personal reality is.
I agree with how Facebook is a simulacra. It becomes part of your everyday life and you get the notion that if you are not using it then you are not conforming to the world today. I realized this about Facebook upon reading the text and have not logged in to Facebook in 1 week.
Correct me if I am wrong. A freshman coming to college gets it is his/her mind that they must portray or act in a certain way to conform with others that they change who they are all together. Is this an example of a simulacra????
I have read through all of the comments so far, and I think what I am about to say is a simulacra of everyone else's responses! I agree with everyone in that the Disney World example really pulled me back into the text when my mind starting going into overtime with all of the concepts that went over my head. I was like, "Wait! Disney World...I know what that is!" So I was able to react and relate to the text better.
ReplyDeleteAbout Facebook and other forms of social networking...I too believe that it is a simulacra of previous types of social networking before we had access to such advanced forms of technology. Although the idea of these sites seemed new and fresh when they first came onto the scene, the ideas are just ideas that were already there, just in a different form. Without Facebook and MySpace, people just networked in different ways.
I also really liked Baudrillard's concept that "Illusion is no longer possible, because the real is no longer possible." He uses the example of a fake bank robbery to prove his point. He says that there is no way to discern between a real and fake robbery because "the signs are the same for a real robbery." To me, this example means that nothing real can be faked because nothing really is REAL anymore; everything "new" is just a copy of the original. Okay, that sounded pretty out there, but it makes total sense!
I really like the way that AngK explained Baudrillard's concept of simulacra. Baudrillard says that nothing in our lives is real anymore because of our dependence on technology and the media.
ReplyDeleteThe Disneyland example makes the idea of simulacra make more sense to me. I love how you can go to Disneyland and become a kid again and forget about your everyday life. SJ Miller's example in class of the mall being a simulacra also helped me understand the concept better.
Bridget posted that music and dancing is a simulacra and I like that example. I think that the gym is a simulacra because people get in the zone when they go there and are in their own world while working out. I also believe the gym is a simulacra because the media pushes us to believe that we should look a certain way and that look can be achieved by going to the gym regularly.
The entire time I was reading this text I was thinking of one of two things. Food, and "The Matrix". "The simulacrum is never what hides the truth-it is truth that hides the fact that there is none. The simulacrum is true". Well, thanks Morpheus. Ill take the blue pill.
ReplyDeleteSo I guess what Baudrillard is trying to say is that we are all weaklings who do nothing but conform to the ideas and images of society, regardless of whether or not it is even "them". Sadly, there seems to be much truth to this. A few of my peers have cited facebook as an example to this. The example that comes to my mind though is american football. American football might be the most boring sport ever invented by mankind. Half the guys on the field are out there because they can eat 10 hot dogs for lunch. But because its a reason to tailgate, drink, have friends over on a Sunday, etc, it caught on and replaced baseball as Americas past time. Id also like to give props to Kennedy for his example of freshmen conforming to college life. Man, theres another thing that ticks me off. But Ive done enough ranting for the time being..... seems thats all I ever do when writing blogs.
When I started reading the book I was thinking to myself oh I’m in some trouble. I had no clue about what he was talking about. I felt like I was just reading a bunch of letters put together. I had to read this chapter a good three times to start to kind of understand what he was talking about. As I was reading everyone’s responses I agreed with everything that everyone was talking about. I also liked the fact that I was not the only one that was lost at first. As I forced myself to keep reading it got a little better.
ReplyDeleteWhen I got to page 12 that he was talking about Disneyland I was like finally something I know. The way he says it is really deep and kind of a scary thought. It is hard to imagine that just going into a place such as Disneyland makes you forget about the outside world, but in reality that is true. I remember going to Disney World a couple of times and not caring about anything else that was going on in the world. The only thing that mattered to me was the fact that I was at Walt Disney World. I feel like he is trying to tell us that when it comes to simulacra we don’t know what are own reality is. We listen to the media and believe everything they say.
I guess for me examples of simulacra would be social networks such as facebook and myspace. I’m pretty sure that I am not the only person who said that in their blogs. I feel like when it comes to the social networks if you are not a member of it you are not part or the “normal world.” I remember coming to IUP as a freshman and facebook was still kind of a new idea. I signed up as a way to keep in contact with my friends who were all going to different schools. I thought it was a great idea, but then everyone started to get a facebook. I have so called friends on my facebook from high school that I’m pretty sure I only talked to a handful of times.
I hope this made a little sense...
I also like the way AngK explained the concept. I find Baudrillard very brave to go this deep into the foundations of one's psychology, questioning concepts of reality has always been a grey area, unchallenged by science and left to be picked over by new-age minds. I'm drawn to his ideas, which make more sense to me than they should... and i can grasp this concept the most when he talks about the effects of mass media, and the agenda behind it all. Its a slippery slope when it comes to talking about what is and is not real. We precieve reality only but what we know and experience, what we take in through our senses, touch, smell, sound, sight, and taste. These 5 qualities make up our mental models of reality. The media does a great job at overloading our senses with whatever information they believe will sell, and in this way, begin to shape what we consider reality, even thought it may come in the form of whitening strips and botox. A simulacra that i feel exists is the whole concept of the American Dream. At one point in time, i believe that this term once ment something signifiant, represented a passionate people, but now we hear the term American Dream and we think materialistically. It has become a dream with no foundations, with no roots or beginnings. It's almost as if this "dream" world has become our new reality...
ReplyDeleteReading Baudrillard's book is completely mind-blowing. Sometimes I feel like I know what he's talking about, but other times it's like I'm reading the original Old English text of the Canterbury Tales.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I completely agree with AngK. I think that I will take it a step further and say that our lives/reality as a whole could be seen as a simulacra. Everything we do and say is a reflection of something that we have learned from society's symbols and meanings. So much of our lives depends on technology, and what the professionals tell us about it, it's hard to tell what information is real and what isn't.
This dependency reminds me of two books. Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 and Lois Lowry's The Giver. Both books deal with the fact with future civilizations, who are so dependent on technology that they are unable to think and feel freely. If any of the characters do, then they are put down and stamped out because they didn't adhere to their society's norms.
If this doesn't make sense or seems like it's way out in left field, it's because I can't sleep and I'm watching the SyFy channel (bad idea I know).
When I started reading this book I was completely blown away. I still don't understand a lot of what Baudrillard is trying to say, but I respect him for being able to think the way he does.
ReplyDeleteLike many of the other blogs above have stated, the Disneyworld example really helped me understand what Baudrillard was trying to get at. I have been to Disney many times and it still amazes me how you can go from being an adult to a little kid again just by stepping through the gate.
As far as identifying other simulacras I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your job, depending on what you do, could be a simulacra. I'm not really sure if that makes sense or not but at least I tried haha!
"The simulacrum is never what hides the truth-it is truth that hides the fact that there is none."
ReplyDeleteThis is the first sentence of the Baudrillard text and it is a complete mind f***. Although my first thought was that I'd need a dictionary by my side simply to get through the first two pages, the concept is rather simple when separated from Baudrillard's language.
It's something that I think we all have thought about at one point or another...what is real? And, if some things are considered real, than what is considered fake? Could the real actually be fake, just a distraction so that people won't realize that nothing is real?
It seems to me that Baudrillard is trying to say that nothing is "real" and we are only trying to comfort ourselves by thinking that there is a "real." And it's easy to pretend with the way our society is and the way that we live our lives today. Everywhere, people are obsessed with the media and materialistic items and capitalism. These, it seems, are things to cling to, things that seem "real," but they are really hiding the truth that there is no "real."
Wow. Let's take a moment to digest that, shall we?
On page 5, Baudrillard states, "what if God himself can be simulated, that is to say can be reduced to the signs that constitute faith?" I find this interesting because it gives the concept of religion a whole new side. A statement like that can really rock a person's belief system.
Also, I agree with Javier that American football is a prime example of a simulacra and I was thinking that the entire time I was struggling through this chapter. People are so wrapped up in it and, as I said before, clinging to it. To the fans, it is very, very real. However, those of us who have read the Baudriallard text know the truth; it is simply a red herring.
That is, if you believe all this garbage. I'm still deciding.
After reading Baudrillard's text and the above comments about it, I believe a simulacrum is a unreal copy or representation of something. I agree with Betsy G. I think Baudrillard thinks everything we enjoy to do, like watching football or going to Disneyland, is unreal. He wants everyone to believe that everything is simulated and we should all just walk around like zombies. I strongly disagree with all of this and what I just wrote. The definition of real is true; existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary; being an actual thing, etc. How can these things he talks about be unreal or imaginary when everything one of them meet the definition of real. Well I guess the only one is when he states, "what if God himself can be simulated," but I believe in the bible and that's proof to me that God is real.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think he would agree "Youtube" is a simulacrum.
I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong and it might become more clear when we talk about it in class and I read on in the book. But for right now, this is what I think.
joshtwss
I have to agree with most of the people in the class that yes, the book is quite confusing haha. The sense of what similacra is that I;m getting basically revolves around what is real, and how we as a society classifies it. The Disneyland example seemed to hit home with a lot of people, and me as well. People go there to get a sense of fantasy and act like a child, but in essence they are acting like a child and forgetting about the outside world.
ReplyDeleteA lot of other people have brought up technology and how it in itself has kind of made our own lives similacra. We attach ourselves to all these things that just relay symbols from the media to us.
I have to admit the copy without an original thing confused me in class, but after going back and thinking abut it it became much clearer. The whole idea I had was how we copy something from society, trying to simulate it so many times over so many years that the original is long gone and forgotten, but we still hold onto the copy.
hopefully this will all make a little more sense when we talk about it in class hehe
I must agree with all my fellow classmates that this book was no easy read. However,I feel like I am slowly grasping the concept of the simulcra through the tough reading and examples given in class. The author Baudrillard explains that a simulacra as a copy of the orginal which comes across to me as a fight between a persons belief of what is reality. How can person know that something truly exisited if there wasnt a copy before which can allow you to realize the difference. For example, in class we were given the example about the mall and society which brought clarity to me about the whole concept of simulcra. You go to the mall and leave to go back into society. These are two different environments but you would have never known you entered a mall if you didnt experience society first. In class the mall was considered a hyper real which vanishes once you leave to enter society. This may sound confusing but I get the concept the author is trying to convey. There is a struggle with society actually knowing what is real and I agree with Jeremy DeLuca that society simulates something so many times the true meaning of its exisitence gets lost or becomes forgotten. Somebody correct me if im wrong...I really want to understand!!
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm going to have to be consistent and agree that this book is indefinitely a "mind-fuck" (or so our wonderful professor would say.) I have always been attracted to literature that causes me to dig deep into my brain and think.
ReplyDelete“It is no longer a question of imitation, nor duplication, nor even parody. It is a question of substituting the signs of the real for the real.”
I agree with Betsey G and Joshtwss. We have skewed reality. I am particularly interested in the way we have created a simulacra of contemporary media. We have erased the line between ACTUAL needs and wants. Commercials lead us to believe that we are in need of these goods, i.e. volumizing shampoo, diet pills, Special K bars. When in actuality, we could live without them. Being in the Communications Media department, I am constantly surrounded by all forms of media. We analyze and interpret commercials and advertisements from television, radio, film, magazines, newspapers, etc. I have noticed that over the years, the depiction of what human needs are has become increasingly skewed from reality. The fabrication of goods at present time compared to during the depression is almost sickening. I am very excited to continue reading Simulacra and Simulation and break down the pieces of life that most people never have the opportunity to analyze.
Like everyone else im going to say this book is very strange, it does make you really think about certain aspects of our culture in a different kind of mind set. the example of Disney and its way to shape someone in being a kid again and making that apparent without the person experiencing it, even noticing. like Brittany being a comm major, media is such a love hate kind of thing for most people including myself. all forms of media and technology rely on the public to go out and get the new gadget or craze that is really in reality making everyone handicapped in a way. we are so dependent on technology these days that if it were taken away from us media and the public would not know how to function. this book is a little confusing but getting to talk about it in class more and maybe skimming over again the things that are difficult to read, will help everyone realize the different kinds of so called "realities" are out there.
ReplyDeleteI interpret Jean Baudrillard's concept of simulacra the same as most of my peers. It's basically explaining about a reality that doesn't exist. One pefect example of this that I read from the blogs was the Matrix movie. It's the idea that throughout the movie the audience loses touch of reality of what's fake or real. With technology today, it's hard for us to see what is and isn't real. We have facebooks, myspaces, and our own websites. People also go online to meet their soulmates, but how many of those dating profiles turn out to be who they say? The internet is a way for many people to change their identity. They tend to have the need to validate their worth by maybe having the most friends, best profile picture, or showoff who they're in a relationship with this month. The internet is a great way to mask reality of people's lives. Videogames also tend to control people's lives. There are some people who cancel dates with friends to play, and that's when the fantasy tends to overcome the reality.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why I used to think of this, but I remember in middle school wondering (bored in my Algebra class) if I was sitting in class or did my mind put me there and I was really in Europe walking the streets of London. I used to think I was weird but this concept seems similiar to Baudrillards. How can we know 100%what is real in this world and what is fake. The reality shows today have people addicted to other's lives, but in reality most of these shows are scripted and fake. Nothing in this world seems safe within movies, Internet, or T.V. What I find interesting is how some people have dreams and then what they dream sometimes comes true. So could we also now say that maybe dreams can sometimes be true?
Some examples of other simulacras were the facebooks, Matrix, myspaces, and dreams.
Baudrillard's book is one of the most complex books I've ever read. At times his descriptions of these false realities make sense, but then at the same time I have no idea what he is talking about. The notes posted did help me grasp the concept better then what I would have done on my own and so did everyones postings. The technology examples are one of the easiest to understand, especially through the networks available online now. Online you can posses qualities you don't even necessarily have and change everything about yourself that you don't like. I can agree with everyone about how Baudrillard makes you question whats real and whats not. An example of a simulacra would be how differently we act depending on who we are around. If you're around a bunch of adults you're not going to goof off and act like jerk like you would with your friends. Somewhere along the lines a false identity was created.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was trying to interpret Baudrilled's concept of simulacra it confused me even more but I what I think is the main point of this concept is that something isn't real unless soceity makes real I think. In his book he talks about how society has lost the ability to differ between reality and non reality. I really like when Baudrilled used the example of amusement parks. It made me think of amusement parks in a whole different view. I think of them a place just to have fun at but know Baudrilled gave me a different view of them like its where people go to escape reality, which I never thought of before.
ReplyDeleteI also really like Jason Gouldner (from last semester class blog) and the example of video games when talking about simulacra. I think this is a perfect example because when people are playing them it is like they are in another world (a virtal world) and sometimes people can take on different identities. An example of this is when you play WII you can make your person how you want your person to look like. It also like all those virtal world games like where people go on this game and have a completely different identity then in their real lives. Other examples are facebook and myspace.